Good or bad ETA?

[darek_u]

I have a chance to buy a set of ETA VDO p/n 0001418925 and MAF Bosch p/n 0280214004 at a very reasonable price, both removed from 1994 Euro R129 with M119 engine. I'm pretty sure they will fit .036 car but are they worth of considering as spares? I'm particularly worried about ETA and condition of wires inside. When did they stop using eco junk wires? Seller claims car was checked with SD prior to disassembly and had no DTC codes from these components. Should I pull the trigger and buy them???

 

[Jlaa]

Does your 1992 500E use the ETA with a pancake connector?

See this post from @JC220 - he had phoned Victor @ resotreyourmercedes.com who indicated that the 1992 pancake ETAs are seemingly free of eco-junk wiring. Pancake connector loom for ETA

 

[gsxr]

Yep, the early ETA's should have good wiring, but still have parts inside that wear out. They can be rebuilt by Don Roden (in USA) for ~$300 USD if needed.

If the price is right, both are good spares if you don't already have them.

 

[darek_u]

Does your 1992 500E use the ETA with a pancake connector?

Hmmm, what is pancake connector? Flat round plug? If so - yes, my 1992 car have it. The ETA I'm thinking about buying have a different type of connector, see below:



I think retrofitting the pancake connector shouldn't be a problem if needs be? I can see that the pancake pigtail, despite the insane price, is NLA now.

 

[Jlaa]

Yes flat round plug is the pancake connector. See @gsxr's pictures attached below.

The reason to point out "pancake" vs. "small" connector is that IF the ETA has a pancake connector, the wiring inside PROBABLY is good and is not eco-junk.

If the the ETA has the small connector, the wiring inside MIGHT be eco-junk.

 

[gsxr]

The ETA in your photo is dated April 1997 and should have good wiring, but as I mentioned already, that doesn't mean the ETA is good.

The pancake pigtail still shows "available" at MBCC, but there may not be any in stock... and the European price is crazy at €273. When available in USA it was only around $30 USD. Someone would need to call a dealer and see what's going on with it.

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

 

[darek_u]

I think I'll pull the trigger, price is right so why not...

 

[albdentist]

FYI: Don recently rebuilt my late model small connector ETA for $400...

Great quick service

 

[albdentist]

This worked well for me so I thought I'd pass this along...

Don Roden's initialization of rebuilt ETA unit:

Turn ignition on, wait 3-4 minutes, turn ignition off. Start vehicle (not necessary to touch gas pedal). Allow engine to run until idle drops to roughly 750 RPM's. Go fro test drive. Check cruise control..

 

[Eno]

When the old silicon protective cover material and wires get hot and cold many times repeatedly and when the inner wires twist inside more than the outer protection material, they tend to fail.

 

[darek_u]

Well, eventually I didn't buy the set I was talking about in this thread, seller changed his mind... Not a big deal really. So recently I came across another offer, this time for ETA only, seller claims it is NOS and brand new Not the cheapest offer though... I'm trying to figure out what year it was manufactured. Was it 2003? See picture below:

 

[JC220]

Well, eventually I didn't buy the set I was talking about in this thread, seller changed his mind... Not a big deal really. So recently I came across another offer, this time for ETA only, seller claims it is NOS and brand new Not the cheapest offer though... I'm trying to figure out what year it was manufactured. Was it 2003? See picture below:

View attachment 91714

Looks like 91M12 which would translate to December 1991. It also doesn't look like brand new from a box to me- need more pics. The style of plug and ASR VS non ASR is important.

 

[darek_u]

Hmmm, as per Wiki here:

• W140 ASR ETA's have longer cables but otherwise are functionally equivalent; part #'s are 000-141-73-25 early style, 000-141-89-25 late style

As per above it is early W140 ASR with ETA but someone more knowledgeable can chime in here possibly. I agree that it doesn't look brand new but maybe it is just dirty? See another picture:



The built date is somewhat early, would it be a good one? I'm thinking eco junk etc.

 

[gerryvz]

ANY ETA from before the 1997-1998 time frame is going to have bad wiring internally.

Best to purchase an ETA made in 2000 or later, to be safe.

 

[darek_u]

I enlarged the original picture and it looks like Dec 1991 to me now... So eco junk onboard, better to walk away...

 

[Jlaa]

ANY ETA from before the 1997-1998 time frame is going to have bad wiring internally.

Best to purchase an ETA made in 2000 or later, to be safe.

I thought I read before that @JC220 (I think?) had a chat with Victor from RestoreYourMercedes and the conclusion was that if you have pre-1997-ETA with the big pancake connector then the wiring is probably not eco-junk. However if you have a pre-1997-ETA with the new smaller connector (see post #5) then the wiring is likely to be eco-junk???

 

[gerryvz]

That is POSSIBLY true (I don’t think for one second that it is true, personally), but I’ve never seen any official verification of it. I have seen PLENTY of early ETAs go bad.

But basically this is saying that all original ETAs found in 1991-1993 cars are good wiring, and all facelift ETAs with smaller plugs are bad wiring. However, I’ve certainly seen early (pancake) ETAs with bad internal or external wiring, so I DO NOT think Victor is correct, at least in regard to the V-8 ETAs as found in the .034 and .036.

Also remember that the external and internal wiring is NOT the ONLY issue that goes bad with ETAs. The gears and potentiometers inside (mechanical parts) also degrade with time and use, and cause failures.

Again, it’s a MUCH safer bet just to get an ETA made after 2000. Not only will the wiring be a non-issue, but the internal components will be newer, as well.

The caveat is that with any used part, you are always taking a gamble.

I was able to buy a near-new (500 miles) ETA with ASR when I did my M104 top-end rebuild some years back (it’s described in the M104 Top End Rebuild thread). @gsxr found it on eBay and pointed me toward the seller, and I Bought it for a reasonable price. You can see from the photos that the internal wiring of my ETA on that M104 was toast (smaller/late connector).

 

[JC220]

I thought I read before that @JC220 (I think?) had a chat with Victor from RestoreYourMercedes and the conclusion was that if you have pre-1997-ETA with the big pancake connector then the wiring is probably not eco-junk. However if you have a pre-1997-ETA with the new smaller connector (see post #5) then the wiring is likely to be eco-junk???

Yes that's correct and I have never seen even 1 single case of eco junk on an early pancake ETA. I did speak to Victor on the phone a couple years back and he was very clear on that also. (It was him who told me about this and then I cut open my harness to check) Victor rebuilds these ETAs and described that the M119 Pancake unit pigtails are the only "Eco Junk" exceptions.

That is POSSIBLY true (I don’t think for one second that it is true, personally), but I’ve never seen any official verification of it. I have seen PLENTY of early ETAs go bad.

But basically this is saying that all original ETAs found in 1991-1993 cars are good wiring, and all facelift ETAs with smaller plugs are bad wiring. However, I’ve certainly seen early (pancake) ETAs with bad internal or external wiring, so I DO NOT think Victor is correct, at least in regard to the V-8 ETAs as found in the .034 and .036.

Also remember that the external and internal wiring is NOT the ONLY issue that goes bad with ETAs. The gears and potentiometers inside (mechanical parts) also degrade with time and use, and cause failures.

Again, it’s a MUCH safer bet just to get an ETA made after 2000. Not only will the wiring be a non-issue, but the internal components will be newer, as well.

The caveat is that with any used part, you are always taking a gamble.

I was able to buy a near-new (500 miles) ETA with ASR when I did my M104 top-end rebuild some years back (it’s described in the M104 Top End Rebuild thread). @gsxr found it on eBay and pointed me toward the seller, and I Bought it for a reasonable price. You can see from the photos that the internal wiring of my ETA on that M104 was toast (smaller/late connector).

Link or photos to the bad pancake M119 ETA wiring Gerry? (Just like such case will disprove this)

Would love to see this as for the moment I am convinced they are eco junk exempt until I see otherwise for myself. There are several instances on the board here (myself included) where I cut into a 1992 pancake ETA harness and it was perfect condition so this is not guesswork or misinformation IMO.

The late style connector ETAs of 1996 or earlier production will certainly have bad wiring inside as we know.

In any event - yes it is great advice to steer clear of earlier production where possible as a rule of thumb. hese are pics of my 1992 ETA and the wiring inside: (Pigtail was also original + date coded 1992)

 

[gsxr]

I think all the early/pancake *external* wires are OK... as discussed above, I've never seen one with bad wiring either.

That said, I don't think this applies to the *internal* wires. And as Gerry noted, the other internal parts wear out over time+miles... switches, coil, potentiometer, etc.

With Don Roden rebuilding them at ~$325, it's kinda of a no-brainer to just get one that he's already fixed and send in your old one as a core.

 

[gerryvz]

I looked in my own files, and did some research on-line. Indeed, I am not able to directly find any photographic examples of "pancake" connector ETAs that have bad internal or external wiring. Pretty much everything photographically is the later (barrel) connector ETAs. That said, some ETAs going back as early as 1991 production (in the M104) have been described to have bad wiring, but I could not find any example photo images.

And note that early 1993 model year ETAs for the HFM-based M104, would have been produced in early to mid-1992 for 1993 model year cars, would have been faulty.

I am not precisely sure when the "pancake" connector was phased out in favor of the barrel connector ETAs on the M119 as used in the E500E, but I believe it was sometime in the mid-model year 1993 chassis range (up to engine number 007765). My early production 1994 E500 (with barrel connector) is engine 008486, so this would have put the phase-in of the barrel connector ETAs (as of engine 007766) on the 500E somewhere around March or April of 1993. This is backed up by factory data that I have.

I am aware of the assertions both on this forum from last year, and on other sites such as Victor's, with the blanket statement that all pancake-connector ETAs have good wiring. I still am not convinced about this (personally). However, that is just my opinion. I do not represent it as fact, nor Gospel. Only my opinion.

Personally, I would NOT use a pancake or barrel connector ETA produced before 2000 on my cars, and I have left many of both styles sitting in cars in the wrecking yards. All of my spare ETAs (both W124 and W140 units) have production dates ranging from 2000 to 2011.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

I am not precisely sure when the "pancake" connector was phased out in favor of the barrel connector ETAs on the M119 as used in the E500E, but I believe it was sometime in the mid-model year 1993 chassis range (up to engine number 007765). My early production 1994 E500 (with barrel connector) is engine 008486, so this would have put the phase-in of the barrel connector ETAs (as of engine 007766) on the 500E somewhere around March or April of 1993. This is backed up by factory data that I have.

Based on my observations, the EPC break point is wrong. (Yes... another EPC error.) I had found a number of cars which were late 1993 USA model year builds, where the EPC indicated they were supposed to have the late/barrel connector, but photos proved the car had the early/pancake connector.

I didn't save details on each I've seen, but here is one example I had noted: mwaldron's posted photos of his late 1993 500E (produced May/June 1993), engine #7993, and the car has the early/big connector. EPC says the early ETA was used through engine #7765, late ETA as of engine #7766. His car is 200+ engine numbers beyond the cutoff stated in the EPC.

It appears the late-style barrel connector was phased in with the facelift, NOT based on engine number or chassis number.

 

[Jlaa]

I am not precisely sure when the "pancake" connector was phased out in favor of the barrel connector ETAs on the M119 as used in the E500E, but I believe it was sometime in the mid-model year 1993 chassis range (up to engine number 007765). My early production 1994 E500 (with barrel connector) is engine 008486, so this would have put the phase-in of the barrel connector ETAs (as of engine 007766) on the 500E somewhere around March or April of 1993. This is backed up by factory data that I have.

Based on my observations, the EPC break point is wrong. (Yes... another EPC error.) I had found a number of cars which were late 1993 USA model year builds, where the EPC indicated they were supposed to have the late/barrel connector, but photos proved the car had the early/pancake connector.

I didn't save details on each I've seen, but here is one example I had noted: mwaldron's posted photos of his late 1993 500E (produced May/June 1993), engine #7993, and the car has the early/big connector. EPC says the early ETA was used through engine #7765, late ETA as of engine #7766. His car is 200+ engine numbers beyond the cutoff stated in the EPC.

It appears the late-style barrel connector was phased in with the facelift, NOT based on engine number or chassis number.

My car, produced May 14, 1993, has engine #7969. It also has a pancake connector ETA (dated April 1993). BTW, I do have a much more recent spare as well.

 

[Bogeyman]

My engine #7967 has the early/big one.

 

[Bogeyman]

...they must have made all the red ones on the same day?

 

[Jlaa]

...they must have made all the red ones on the same day?

"Scheisse! Ve are supposed to make some rot ones of this model! OK, Hans, let's just bang zem out und get it over vith..... "

 

[gsxr]

...they must have made all the red ones on the same day?

Not all the same day, but the last 66 sequential VIN's imported to USA as 1993 model years were all all non-metallic colors (Signal Red, 040 Black, Arctic White). 16 of the 17 Signal Reds were included in this "last" batch, all produced around the same 4-week period between mid-May and mid-June 1993. There was one oddball Signal Red produced earlier in March 1993. A handful of white & black were also produced prior to the last 66. Total non-metallics in 1993 was 73 (again, USA only, not worldwide).

Trivia: Only two USA cars in 1992 were non-metallic, both Arctic White. And in 1994 there were only 34 non-metallics (black, white, red) imported to USA.

 

[darek_u]

I was only wondering what the production date is....

 

[emerydc8]

I looked in my own files, and did some research on-line. Indeed, I am not able to directly find any photographic examples of "pancake" connector ETAs that have bad internal or external wiring. Pretty much everything photographically is the later (barrel) connector ETAs. That said, some ETAs going back as early as 1991 production (in the M104) have been described to have bad wiring, but I could not find any example photo images.

Cheers,
Gerry

FWIW, I had a 1993 400E (pancake connector) and the ETA wiring was toast. It was so long ago that I can't find any pictures, but it was just as bad as the engine wiring harness.

 

[JC220]

FWIW, I had a 1993 400E (pancake connector) and the ETA wiring was toast. It was so long ago that I can't find any pictures, but it was just as bad as the engine wiring harness.

Sorry but I don't buy this myself without pics. There could always be a first - but IMO it is irregular for a pancake ETA to be bad. Perhaps the 1993 year is the eco insulation changeover? Just before the late style plugs were also implemented

In any event - we know that the pancake pigtail is available new. No one has ever found out if the late style Pigtail is also available new - what is that late style pigtail part number?? I need one for a spare ETA.

My 500E is still using that original Pancake pigtail I posted photos of above. After over 100k miles there is zero degradation of the wiring so I was able to re-use it.

 

[emerydc8]

I discovered it by accident. I was having trouble with an intermittent cruise control and I was leaning on the intake cover with the key on but the engine off and I noticed that the ETA motor started to run and stop based on how much weight I was leaning on the intake cover. I pulled the intake cover off and discovered that if I moved the ETA wire slightly it was affecting the operation of the ETA motor. Did some further investigating and cut into the harness ony to see the same crappy wire insulation as the engine wiring harness. The pancake connector was securely fastened and locked into position. I ordered the pancake connector/harness from Germany, but my wife totaled the car before I could replace the harness. I ended up giving the pancake connector to a tech at the dealer who needed it to rebuild a harness on a customer's 500E.